Comments on: Why programmers need grownups to run things for them http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/ The original Mr Angry... Finding something to be angry about every day of the year Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:44:03 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Why software developers don’t run companies? | TechWinter http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-135049 Why software developers don’t run companies? | TechWinter Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:14:31 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-135049 [...] more>> addthis_url = 'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.techwinter.com%2F2006%2F08%2F21%2Fwhy-software-developers-don%25e2%2580%2599t-run-companies%2F'; addthis_title = 'Why+software+developers+don%E2%80%99t+run+companies%3F'; addthis_pub = ''; Facebook - Fear and loathing, okay mostly loathing 13 June 2008 [...] [...] more>> addthis_url = ‘http%3A%2F%2Fwww.techwinter.com%2F2006%2F08%2F21%2Fwhy-software-developers-don%25e2%2580%2599t-run-companies%2F’; addthis_title = ‘Why+software+developers+don%E2%80%99t+run+companies%3F’; addthis_pub = ”; Facebook – Fear and loathing, okay mostly loathing 13 June 2008 [...]

]]> By: Moses Knowsgod http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-112868 Moses Knowsgod Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:56:41 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-112868 Programming is monotonous in most instances. It may start fun, but you eventually see that you're writing the same thing day in and day out. And then they want a change, and it's not a simple (or interesting) change. Or they want a report that they won't use. And they have to have it tomorrow, even though you have a giant stack of boring, tedious programming to do. Programmers are usually smart, creative people, and they are thrust into a monotonous, mind-number job. If you want to know why programmers are often introverted and angry, see above. I live in my brain all day long. When I see people, I avoid interacting with them because, 1) I'm not used to getting outside my IT cave/brain, and 2) They usually don't have anything interesting to say, and they often just want to increase my work load. Why do I want to talk to someone that will make my monotonous day more monotonous? Actually, I have great people skills, and I'm very good at finance and business. BUT I live in the coal mine all day, and that tends to make you a cranky hermit. I make good money, and I don't see my life being easier outside my job, but I am SERIOUSLY considering quitting just to get the H_ELL away from this job. Honestly, I can handle the programming. It's the lack of respect and amoral suits that drive me away. They have no respect for a reasonable timeline, they make arbitrary changes, and they look at me as a means to an end. The only respect I get is because I have them by the b_alls, since I'm the only that knows how to write certain code. But they still manage to step on me repeatedly. I will get out of this coal mine soon. I don't know if I can take any more of this BS. Programming is monotonous in most instances. It may start fun, but you eventually see that you’re writing the same thing day in and day out. And then they want a change, and it’s not a simple (or interesting) change. Or they want a report that they won’t use. And they have to have it tomorrow, even though you have a giant stack of boring, tedious programming to do. Programmers are usually smart, creative people, and they are thrust into a monotonous, mind-number job. If you want to know why programmers are often introverted and angry, see above. I live in my brain all day long. When I see people, I avoid interacting with them because, 1) I’m not used to getting outside my IT cave/brain, and 2) They usually don’t have anything interesting to say, and they often just want to increase my work load. Why do I want to talk to someone that will make my monotonous day more monotonous? Actually, I have great people skills, and I’m very good at finance and business. BUT I live in the coal mine all day, and that tends to make you a cranky hermit. I make good money, and I don’t see my life being easier outside my job, but I am SERIOUSLY considering quitting just to get the H_ELL away from this job. Honestly, I can handle the programming. It’s the lack of respect and amoral suits that drive me away. They have no respect for a reasonable timeline, they make arbitrary changes, and they look at me as a means to an end. The only respect I get is because I have them by the b_alls, since I’m the only that knows how to write certain code. But they still manage to step on me repeatedly. I will get out of this coal mine soon. I don’t know if I can take any more of this BS.

]]> By: Mr Angry http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4075 Mr Angry Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:47:31 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4075 issis: you're right, the goals translate no matter what the workplace Rico: yeah, I'm gonna do the whole "take control" thing soon piglet: thanks! I wasn't intending to induce boners in anyone but I find myself strangely aroused by your analogy issis: you’re right, the goals translate no matter what the workplace

Rico: yeah, I’m gonna do the whole “take control” thing soon

piglet: thanks! I wasn’t intending to induce boners in anyone but I find myself strangely aroused by your analogy

]]> By: dailypiglet http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4073 dailypiglet Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:40:35 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4073 If I were a man I would say that reading this totally gave me a "boner". I am not, however a man but I love what you've written. SO FUCKING TRUE IT IS! Been there, done that. It's all about CONTROL. Control over code, control over programs, too bad people cannot be coded right? In a perfect programming world, this would totally happen. It takes great talent in order to marry good IT folks to good leaders. Excellent topic. If I were a man I would say that reading this totally gave me a “boner”. I am not, however a man but I love what you’ve written. SO FUCKING TRUE IT IS!

Been there, done that. It’s all about CONTROL. Control over code, control over programs, too bad people cannot be coded right? In a perfect programming world, this would totally happen.

It takes great talent in order to marry good IT folks to good leaders. Excellent topic.

]]> By: Rico http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4060 Rico Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:45:59 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4060 Very nice, Mr. Angry Aussie. I totally agree. In fact, I knew you were gonna suggest leaving to form a company before I reached the last sentence. Instead of complaining, they should just get off their buttocks and do something! :-) Very nice, Mr. Angry Aussie. I totally agree. In fact, I knew you were gonna suggest leaving to form a company before I reached the last sentence. Instead of complaining, they should just get off their buttocks and do something! :-)

]]> By: issis http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4034 issis Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:36:25 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4034 really nice post about something i have no idea: IT, but I completely understood that there are certain people made to lead and others to work and if the work is done in a good team everybody will finish their working day happy. really nice post about something i have no idea: IT, but I completely understood that there are certain people made to lead and others to work and if the work is done in a good team everybody will finish their working day happy.

]]> By: Mr Angry http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4025 Mr Angry Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:42:34 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4025 dropout: I'm all for sabbaticals, taking work too seriously can damage your health Devlin: I get what you're saying, not the point of my post but points worth making. You are absolutely right that it's damaging to the company to waste programmer's time. Robert: Good response, a bit of depth there I think Devlin hadn't considered. Although it sounds like the poor bloke's been stuck in places with far too much overhead. dropout: I’m all for sabbaticals, taking work too seriously can damage your health

Devlin: I get what you’re saying, not the point of my post but points worth making. You are absolutely right that it’s damaging to the company to waste programmer’s time.

Robert: Good response, a bit of depth there I think Devlin hadn’t considered. Although it sounds like the poor bloke’s been stuck in places with far too much overhead.

]]> By: Robert Moir http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4023 Robert Moir Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:12:48 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4023 Devilin, If your manager isstanding around gossiping about which senior exec is taking early afternoons to help their secretary with her golf swing, that is overhead. Talking about what was on TV last night is arguably still overhead, though most people would argue that a little bonding and searching for common ground is a useful lubricant for the process of talking to people. Talking to users about why they attended the same meetings as the programmer, both sides agreed the minutes from the meeting that were used to define a spec that was then cross checked by all parties before coding started, and yet the product that was developed based on this doesn't meet their needs is absolutely not overhead. What you dismiss as "political reasons" can cover a lot of things which might be important or might not. For example, maybe the business has major cashflow issues which prevents them from making a capital expenditure at what would be the right time for you and your project. Is that 'overhead'? Devilin,
If your manager isstanding around gossiping about which senior exec is taking early afternoons to help their secretary with her golf swing, that is overhead.

Talking about what was on TV last night is arguably still overhead, though most people would argue that a little bonding and searching for common ground is a useful lubricant for the process of talking to people.

Talking to users about why they attended the same meetings as the programmer, both sides agreed the minutes from the meeting that were used to define a spec that was then cross checked by all parties before coding started, and yet the product that was developed based on this doesn’t meet their needs is absolutely not overhead.

What you dismiss as “political reasons” can cover a lot of things which might be important or might not. For example, maybe the business has major cashflow issues which prevents them from making a capital expenditure at what would be the right time for you and your project. Is that ‘overhead’?

]]> By: Devlin Bentley http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4021 Devlin Bentley Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:22:16 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4021 Good management does not just involve good social skills though. I have had managers w ho are very sociable, and who also had good technical skills, but who still were not good at managing people! The thing is, techies (*raises hand*) know that socializing is <b>overhead</b> that is rather annoying and takes time. When a programmer is in the zone (a mental state of intense concentration) their productivity goes up by hundreds of percentage points. If a programmer is in such state and needs some resources, and is then told "Oh I'm sorry, for political reasons we haven't acquired said resources yet, but don't worry in another few weeks the bootlicking should be done and said resources will have been acquired", you are going to have one very pissed off and unproductive programmer. At which point you are now throwing away $40-$60 an hour. Congrats. The thing is, a good programmer, heck, a good employee, is not thinking "oh well I am getting paid anyway", instead they are thinking "This is $40 an hour the company is throwing down the tube, I am not getting any work done, not helping the company, thus this social stupidity that is occurring is costing the company a good chunk of money." The day your employees become apathetic to political blockages existing is the day your employees don't care about if the company succeeds or not! So yes, damnit, we the technical bunch will CONTINUE to complain about the stupidity of meaningless social circle jerks, because we care about the money that gets thrown away to support such activities! Good management does not just involve good social skills though. I have had managers w ho are very sociable, and who also had good technical skills, but who still were not good at managing people!

The thing is, techies (*raises hand*) know that socializing is overhead that is rather annoying and takes time. When a programmer is in the zone (a mental state of intense concentration) their productivity goes up by hundreds of percentage points. If a programmer is in such state and needs some resources, and is then told “Oh I’m sorry, for political reasons we haven’t acquired said resources yet, but don’t worry in another few weeks the bootlicking should be done and said resources will have been acquired”, you are going to have one very pissed off and unproductive programmer.

At which point you are now throwing away $40-$60 an hour. Congrats.

The thing is, a good programmer, heck, a good employee, is not thinking “oh well I am getting paid anyway”, instead they are thinking “This is $40 an hour the company is throwing down the tube, I am not getting any work done, not helping the company, thus this social stupidity that is occurring is costing the company a good chunk of money.”

The day your employees become apathetic to political blockages existing is the day your employees don’t care about if the company succeeds or not! So yes, damnit, we the technical bunch will CONTINUE to complain about the stupidity of meaningless social circle jerks, because we care about the money that gets thrown away to support such activities!

]]> By: IT Drop out http://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4017 IT Drop out Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:16:46 +0000 https://angryaussie.wordpress.com/2006/08/21/why-programmers-need-grownups-to-run-things-for-them/#comment-4017 I left "IT" almost a year ago and have not worked for 10 months. Meanwhile my computers got really old and slow, whatever needs to be accomplished drags. Right now, for me IT means "surfing and checking email" so I almost feel like a manager. It's good to have a break once every three, four years. Letting the disks spin, stepping out of the circuits, dropping all calls for a while. Throwing away the key: no. And I will come back soon. But it aint freedom. Neither it is without. IT is the breath of current and future technology. Management is the crazy captains trying to free the nostrils of dirt. Like: on sale, uh. I left “IT” almost a year ago and have not worked for 10 months.
Meanwhile my computers got really old and slow, whatever needs to be accomplished drags.
Right now, for me IT means “surfing and checking email” so I almost feel like a manager.
It’s good to have a break once every three, four years. Letting the disks spin, stepping out of the circuits, dropping all calls for a while.
Throwing away the key: no. And I will come back soon.
But it aint freedom. Neither it is without.
IT is the breath of current and future technology.
Management is the crazy captains trying to free the nostrils of dirt. Like: on sale, uh.

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