Atheist bigots – shut the fuck up

People who think the simple fact they profess to be atheists makes them automatically smarter than anyone who believes in god can shut the fuck up any time now.  I’m not sure what pisses me off most about this attitude – the innate arrogance, the internal logical contradiction or the ignoring of objectively observable reality.

I’ve made no secret of the fact that I think religious fundamentalists are morons.  I’ve been very clear that I think people who want to place their religious beliefs on an equal footing on science are evil and enemies of humanity.  None of that means there aren’t atheists who are utter fuckwits.  I can’t stand people who push the line “I think believing in god is stupid, I don’t believe in god, therefore I’m smarter than anyone who believes in god.” 

My response is: shut the fuck up you egotistical, self-deluding simpleton. 

Because this type of bigot reflexively accuses me of being a religious fundamentalist I’ll waste a little time explaining what my beliefs are.  (I call this a waste of time because it’s no easier to reach atheist bigots than it is to reach any other sort of bigot.  Who else but a religious nut would challenge their sacred belief is the superiority of atheism?)  My take on the question “Does god exist?” is that it’s irrelevant.

The idea that any “supreme being” could possibly give a shit what us insignificant insects get up to is laughable.  And the idea that said deity would punish us for eternity for not bowing down and offering out lifelong obeisance is fucking ridiculous.  Those are human behaviours.  Any being with those sorts of failings is a long way from supreme.  

And I wholeheartedly reject every religion on the planet.  No matter how humble and selfless the beliefs of any individual may be, religious institutions exist solely to exert power over other people.  Fuck that.  Besides which, all religions are working on the assumption that at least 95% of the planet is wrong (when it comes down to it, intra-religion sects hate each other more than they do outsiders).  Why not go with the odds and assume 100% of them are wrong?

So if I reject religion, why am I telling hardcore atheists to shut the fuck up? Maybe you consider yourself a follower of science and rational, objective reason.  Good for you.  That doesn’t make you innately more intelligent than ANYONE.  Atheism is a belief system the same as any religion.  You can’t prove that god doesn’t exist any more than anyone can prove god does exist.  You believe that your rational thought system is right and religious belief is wrong.  But by itself, that isn’t a measure of intelligence.

Sure, you can point to insane bastards who reject conclusive science like evolution in favour of their literal interpretation of religious texts.  Being able to point out complete freaks doesn’t define you as a genius.  In fact, an arrogant belief in one’s superiority is usually a sure sign of lack of intelligence.  Intelligent people are actually the most likely to say “I don’t know”.  Something religious fundamentalists and atheist bigots have in common is an unswerving beliefs in their rightness – there is something essentially wrong with anyone who disagrees with them.

When someone says “My fundamental non-religious beliefs make me automatically smarter than someone with fundamental religious beliefs” I say “Shut the fuck up!”  The fact that someone who would say that is too stupid to see the inherent logical contradiction would be funny if it wasn’t sad.  Neither intelligence nor your worth as a human is measured solely on where you lie on the religion/atheism continuum.  Unless the person doing the measuring is a fundamentalist zealot.

It really bugs me how atheist zealots argue they are more intelligent than religious believers in the face of objective evidence to the contrary.  Saying that a belief in god makes you automatically stupid denies obvious things like the number of scientists and scholars who are religious.  Not to mention the amount of scholarly work that has been done through the ages and continues to be done by religious groups.

Why are some atheists so scared to admit that they are following a deeply held belief rather than some objective reality?  What the hell is wrong with belief?  When you can admit you hold beliefs rather than some indisputable truth you’re saying that you’re still open to questions.  You’re intelligent and objective enough to admit that there is always more to learn. 

Of course you think your beliefs are right.  By definition when you believe something you think you’re right.  And it makes sense to defend your beliefs passionately and point out what you think is wrong with contradictory views.  But a sure sign of an ignorant, anti-intellectual fuckwit is someone who’s convinced they have no more to learn and it’s impossible they will ever be proved wrong.

I’ve learned from experience that there is a certain (small) subset of atheists who are incapable of making the concession they could be wrong.  In this they are every bit as much a fundamentalist as the most backward religious freak.  Pressing them on this point tends to make them freak out.  But I don’t give a fuck.

Atheist bigots need to shut the fuck up.

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171 Comments

Filed under religion, Science

171 responses to “Atheist bigots – shut the fuck up

  1. Well, I certainly see where you’re coming from, but take some issue with “You can’t prove that god doesn’t exist any more than anyone can prove god does exist.” Because burden of proof lies with existence, just as burden of proof lies with guilt; in other words, nonexistent until proven existent just as innocent until proven guilty. That’s just the way science works.

    On the other hand, I believe the existence of God can be proved rather easily by science (for varying definitions of “god”. And “science,” probably).

    But the whole thing about atheism being nearly as much a religion as religion is? Yeah, totally.

    • Noel

      I know this is old, but seriously, the “burden of proof” scapegoat is not a phrase you will find in science – anywhere. That comes from the legal system. And, no, science doesn’t work the same way the legal system does, sweetheart. If that were true, then a theory or scientific law would be disproven on “reasonable doubt” alone. No, this is all your opinions. No legitimate scientist will compare the scientific method to the court system.

      If it was “nonexistent until proven existent” then no scientists would be looking for evidence for the string theory, cold fusion, or life on other planets – all of which haven’t been proven existent. In truth, no evidence for + no evidence against = WE DON’T KNOW! Not “nonexistent”. The answer is neutrality. You cannot draw final conclusions without evidence to draw conclusions on. That’s the scientific method. You learn it elementary school.

    • Slippy

      Great article however, I take issue with your statement that atheism is a belief system. Atheism, in its purest sense, is the lack of a belief and no more than that. I dont understand a how a lack of a belief in something can be a belief. Atheism is a belief in what exactly? A belief that a superior being doesnt exist? No, thats anti-theism. Is it not?

    • It is easy to prove that the bible is a load of crap, what with the massively incorrect information about physics, biology, geography, geology, chemistry, mathematics, astronomy, meteorology, etc.

      Atheists (at least this one) believe there is no evidence for god, so there is no reason to believe in one, and reason enough to believe there ISN’T one. Production of convincing, physical evidence would be enough to open the discussion.

    • Jeff Loehr

      You make a good point. Why waste time on a non-issue? Enough said

  2. That’s a belief system :)

  3. Sort of, I guess. But scientific theories aren’t belief systems. That’s why they’re theories.

    Depends on what you believe a belief is, I suppose.

    • Two Roads and a Hidden Dirt Road

      Depends which scientist your following really, there is scientific evidence for and against the after life especially now more than ever -but getting all scientist to agree with each other on this proves impossible.

      We have scientist who are devote atheist(who treat atheism as a religion type ideal using current evidence as the be all an end all when really theres more at play scientifically) who will argue till their faces turn blue against those who thinks theres proof (who sometimes have people in their community who say ridiculous things to try to get funding for there studies).
      -Also keeping in mind also not all those who have found proof of the after life are religious /spiritual devotes or zealots either, some are skeptical atheists trying to figure out why a great deal of people believe in a after life and why some don’t.

      Most of these scientific findings concerning the spiritual aspects come down to currently that, some people are hardwired that way(to believe a after life via -dmt,brain functions, or partly up bringing, and now the theory also quantum physics and/or telekinesis may also play a big part as well. Quantum physics is showing us more and more everyday that reality isn’t so clear cut as one might perceive in our current observation, and that our experience may not just lie within are one own face value concept of reality. It is currently challenge many current scientific theories and concepts as I write this.

      It see many popular scientist who are atheist brush these finding off as pseudo science but this is merely based on personal preference and bias towards there own studies and findings and current ideal views of the world, hence why many science still studies the subject.

      Then you get some atheistic scientist that altogether do not wish to study this field as they find it farcical-but finding something farcical is irrelevant, what matters are the facts and findings and theories and why it is predominate in the human nature to have these experiences, and what they have found thus far.

      Simply pushing the subject aside and not studying it because you are a taking atheism as a religion type dogma doesn’t change the facts and the need to study all aspects of the human condition with out bias. All these scientific facts from both parties, may be proven to be nothing or something one day- this can always be said currently about both parties, until science progresses and we advance technologically and are able to further explore each finding.

      -Some people think there is a after life, not because of the dogmatic aspect of a afterlife -but because of experiences that are remarkable and some of these experiences were presented in front of eye wittiness and even experienced by scientists who were skeptical themselves. Some of these bizarre events were tested and proven possible by scientist in labs i.e. telekinesis and EVP and need further study.

      So there isn’t a very clear cut line as one may simply think of logical and illogical, there is much studies that are needed and much unbiased scrutiny needed as well from both parties involved. Many one day we will get a answer that isn’t filled with bigotry towards those working with in the scientific community and leave the drama of who is right at the moment and simply study and stop slinging mud at those who go against our views.

      It is inevitable unless you go against the free will of a human being you will always have those who do don’t believe or see evidence and those who do, so instead of arguing between the two maybe people should worry about social politics or things they can agree that need change instead of bickering about what others think/know/accept is true or good for themselves.

      It all comes down to we all need: education, respect, love, food, water, heat, work, and a place to live. Without everyone getting these distributed equally to the people we are going to get a bias slide in any society area regardless of what you believe in or what is actually true… this has been shown to us many many times threw out history.

    • @Two Roads: “Depends which scientist your following really, there is scientific evidence for and against the after life…”

      I doubt it. You’ll need to name some specific “scientists,” indicate their field of specialty, and reference their publication(s) regarding this “scientific evidence” in a field-reputable, peer-reviewed journal.

    • Jack

      Will you’re an idiot. Andy is right.

    • Jack

      and Mr Angry is right too!

  4. I just love this post! I have been wanting to say all this and you did a much better job. I can’t point to one premise which is better than another – the entire post is just as it should have been – precise. I am linking to this page. Atheism is definitely a belief system the same as any religion.

  5. Pingback: Atheist bigots - shut the fuck up, « Achelois

  6. DOA

    Can we at least feel superior to the stupid ones? I remember a teacher I had in high school that taught religion class that once “proved” to us mathematically that the soul goes on after death. It went something along the lines of:
    Man has a soul (1).
    Let’s assume that the soul doesn’t go on beyond death (0).
    That would mean that 1=0.
    This is wrong, therefore the soul goes on.

    I still cringe when I remember that…

  7. Vladimir

    > Atheism is a belief system the same as any religion.

    This is just plain wrong. It is a very common fallacy, however, so we (by which I mean our brothers from The Church of Holy Atheism) are not going to lynch you for this. Of course, if you recant and repent.

  8. I read about your post on Achelois, and I really like it, and totally agree with it.
    Bigots are in all places, and you’re right, atheism is a belief. The only position I can consider which would not be a belief would not be atheism, but agnostism, that says “I don’t know”, plainly and honestly.

  9. tom

    Nicely done. However, as founder and CEO of The Atheist Shopping Network, I do wish you would keep this secret to yourself. After all, I have built a completely nonexistent business on the basis of this anti-belief system. Atheists need to purchase niche products too, you know; bumper-stickers, knick-knacks and the like. It’s like I always say, if you can’t beat ‘em, sell ‘em shit.

  10. Zacharias

    “It’s like I always say, if you can’t beat ‘em, sell ‘em shit.”

    Hahahahahahhahahahaha

    -falls out of chair laughing-

  11. Fuck! I’ve just realized that what I’m about to write is going to look pompous – look away, now, if you’re offended by pomposity!

    Richard Rorty wrote an essay (“On Human Rights”), and although the subject matter is different, he said something quite pertinent to this discussion, in there, which went something along the lines of “OK, you’ve got your enlightened believer in human rights, who eschews intolerance – wtf does (s)he do about human rights abusers; tell them that they should try harder?”.

    In other words (and apologies to those who have already twigged the analogy), if one subscribes to a “superior” belief system, then what becomes of one’s belief system, at the point when one demonstrates the same faults as the system that one believes to be inferior? Thus, isn’t the profound disbelief in God, very similar to a profound and unquestioning faith that He does? What proof does one have that God doesn’t exist? Or, put another way, what would God be doing, if he did exist, such that the absence of that action, now, proves conclusively that he doesn’t exist?

    Matt

  12. Excellent article Mr. A, except methinks the subset of atheists you are referring to is much, much larger than you realize…

  13. You know I was just thinking about what you were saying about religion being purely for control, And I have to disagree.

    It occurred to me that in your animosity towards religion, you may be ignoring the fact that are are actually many uses for religion other than control.

    It has been used as a means of preserving the essence, history and traditions of many cultures, teach valuable life lessons, and even social values. IMHO religion is truly only dangerous if it is followed blindly and without logical and independent thought, which, sadly, is the case for the vast majority of them.

    But it is no better or worse than a blind belief in say, the law, or that the scientific process can provide the answers to the universe. Or the folk tales and bedtime stories we used to read as children, that taught us valuable life lessons.

    I agree that many religions have been subverted for the purposes of control by people in power, but I don’t find it unlikely that it would be it’s only purpose, since it requires a faith on the part of the theist, that does not come from those in power. That kind of power can only be given, not taken.

    So I think you might be wrong on at least that point. The rest of it I cannot argue…

  14. Vladimir

    > religion is truly only dangerous if it is followed blindly and without logical and independent thought

    Isn’t that the very definition of being religious?

    ——————————
    This form of lie is not without its uses. You can use it to carry a payload of beneficial beliefs, and they will also become part of the child’s identity. You can tell the child that in addition to never wearing the color yellow, believing the world was created by a giant rabbit, and always snapping their fingers before eating fish, Xes are also particularly honest and industrious. Then X children will grow up feeling it’s part of their identity to be honest and industrious.

    This probably accounts for a lot of the spread of modern religions, and explains why their doctrines are a combination of the useful and the bizarre. The bizarre half is what makes the religion stick, and the useful half is the payload.
    (from http://paulgraham.com/lies.html)
    ——————————

  15. @Vladimir
    No, I do not believe that is what defines religion.
    That is what those who wish to make their followers compliant want them to believe. But the truth is that they all have subjective/interpretive components to them. Every religious text can be interpreted differently.

    It is one thing to have faith that the religion one has chosen is right for you, and another thing entirely to let another decide for you what it is that your religion of choice wants of you.

    From my perspective, any belief system is one of faith. Science, Religion, Atheism, they are all a belief in something based on what each of our individual perceptions of reality is telling us to be true. The true danger with any of them, is to blindly believe that everything you believe (or are being fed) is irrefutable fact…

    But I agree with you about religion being used to carry a secondary payload that can be either benevolent or malevolent. This is why I disagree with Mr A.’s rather sweeping statement in that regard.

    One can disagree with the delivery system, which, I might add, is often more effective than their secular counterparts, but should not throw out the baby with the bathwater because of it…

  16. Achelois: Glad it hit the right notes for you.

    DOA: I feel VERY superior to stupid people of all stripes. To use the religious example, once says they believe in literal creationism I refuse to treat them with anything but contempt.

    Vlad: Atheism is by definition a belief system. It defines what you belief. I’m all for belief, I just have a problem with people who assume automatic superiority because of a single belief they have.

    Marie: I certainly have no problem with atheism, just with atheists who insist it’s an unassailable truth and they’re automatically smarter for believing it.

    Tom: atheists have some awesome product lines

    Zach: Tom certainly has a way with words

    Matt: I believe my belief system is right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. But I don’t say I’m smarter than every person who disagrees with me.

    Phyre: I didn’t mean religion as in beliefs per se or the possible benefits individuals get from their religious beliefs and/or institutions. I mean the hierarchy of religions.

    • Dave

      “People who think the simple fact they profess to be atheists makes them automatically smarter than anyone who believes in god can shut the fuck up any time now.”

      ” I feel VERY superior to stupid people of all stripes. To use the religious example, once says they believe in literal creationism I refuse to treat them with anything but contempt.”

      Just thought I would leave this here for you to read over. Your level of hypocrisy was absurd. Your bigotry towards “literal creationists” surpasses bigotry and enters the realm of discrimination. Would you mind practicing what you preach and shut the fuck up?

      Love – Your atheist pal

  17. fuzzball11001

    I don’t really know where to start but here goes….. I remember reading somewhere the statement “I am god of my world”. Some may hold that this statement is blasphemous but I have long thought that is about the only religious statement that I can actually wrap my rather limited brain around, therefore bawling idiotic shit like “please fix problem X for me” at myself wouldn’t achieve very much. I don’t know that I believe that inflicting such torture on some metaphorical metaphysical construct serves any better, but hey, whatever floats your boat. Glad I got that out of the way (my brain hurts….) now to the meat of the matter.
    Bigotry is truly deeply stupid. The person that looks at any statement, be it religious or atheist, and says “this is how it is & because i know this I’m smarter than everyone” really should take note and STFU. Yes religion can be used as a learning tool but what institutions teach invariably ends up being twisted by those who will abuse power for their own ends. So in closing I will just have to change my statement to “Until proven otherwise I am god of my world and if you don’t like my world please don’t hesitate to just fuck off.” Nehoo keep up the great work, keep us all laughing (well me anyway) and I hope I didn’t come off as too pretentious a fuckwit. lol }:~)>

  18. Vladimir

    “Not believing in the existence of God” is not equal to “believing in the non-existence of God”. That’s what happens when a believer is trying to imagine the world view of an atheist: he takes his own one as a base, he throws away the God, thus getting a big hole in His holy place, and declaring that the atheist do believe in that hole, therefore:

    > Atheism is by definition a belief system.

    This might be a purely terminological debate (like “agnosticism vs. atheism”), and there are, I am sure, many “atheists”, believing in “the hole”. Still, you can’t get an atheistic world view by simply throwing the God out of a religious world view.

    • THANK YOU, Vladimir.

      Especially for

      “‘Not believing in the existence of God’ is not equal to ‘believing in the non-existence of God’. That’s what happens when a believer is trying to imagine the world view of an atheist.”

      I will be stealing it for re-use. Care to be credited?

      BTW, way to get the convo going, big guy (Angry Aussie).

  19. I have been wanting to say all this and you did a much better job.

  20. “Matt: I believe my belief system is right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. But I don’t say I’m smarter than every person who disagrees with me.”

    Actually, that’s an interesting point: everybody can justify their belief system, to a point, and usually relative to others (everything’s relative, of course). Bollox! I’ve completely lost track of what I wanted to say!..

    Anyway, my Human Rights professor once said something profound (actually he said many profound things), probably in the Rorty seminar, and it amounted to “nothing is true, other than to the extent that we agree on it”. Even water is only two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen until somebody demonstrates differently; and until that time, we can use H2O as a workable hypothesis. In any case, as you very rightly point out: imagining oneself to be “right,” and therefore “superior,” is a very dangerous business, in a world where nothing is particularly reliable. Put another way, it’s easier to say “I believe [this] to be the case, and it’s what I’m basing my actions on,” rather than to make cast iron statements of fact that don’t fit others’ experience, not least because one can’t be accused of misrepresenting the facts, at a later date!

    Matt

  21. Fuzzball: You didn’t sound too pretentious :)

    Vlad: I am just talking about terminology. Atheism is a belief, not an objective truth. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

    Trance: I say it so you don’t have to!

    Matt: self-belief is important. Confidence in you beliefs about how the world works is important. I just have fun ripping on people who think they’re intrinsically better solely because of their beliefs.

  22. Pokka

    Have to ask the obvious question – did any recent incident trigger the writing of this post?

    I would hasten to add that most atheists feeel, not superior, but unconvinced. They are willing to believe, but require more proof. I would hope only a small percentage incorrectly assume the moral high ground.

    As an atheist myself, I respect anyone whose heart is in the right place, regardless of their philosophy. I think religious arguments have the tendency to reveal the deeper issue of disrespect one may feel.

    Which brings me to my initial question – was there someone who disrespected you recently?

  23. No recent event. This has been building up for a while based on behaviour I’ve seen over an extended period of time. Arguably, the people I’m talking about essentially agree with me. I just think they behave like dicks.

  24. a guy

    Haha.

    It’s not exactly relevant to this but I never really understand what the religious reject about evolution and what the non-religious and scientific present as undeniable scientific fact.

    Is it that the evolution of creatures or that monkeys were your and my forefathers? Care to elaborate?

    In any case I don’t think it should be such a litmus test as it is because there are opinions divided on even whether mobile phones cause cancer, for example.

  25. AitchJay

    I just came to say what Vladimir already said, “atheism is not a belief system, and it is a common fallacy”.

    Look up “Athorism” – it’s the simplest example I can think of at the moment of why you are wrong.

    If you can show me proof of any supernatural entity, I would change what I thought about the subject – that’s not a belief system, that’s looking for evidence and finding none, then drawing the only obvious conclusion available from that. In that sense it is an objective truth, because it could be changed by evidence.

    Belief is a subjective truth, arrived at by different means entirely.

  26. custador

    Most atheists and believers alike (and ALL Creationists) fail utterly to understand the differences between theories, facts and beliefs.

    Facts are simply that which support theories; for example, if Darwinian evolution is true, there should be a human Chromosome that’s twice as big as normal and has an end-marker in the middle from where two ape chromosomes merged. And there is. That’s a fact which supports a theory.

    Theories work like this: I THINK that this is true, here is my evidence for it being true. If certain conditions are not met, however, it will have been proven to be untrue. Newtonian gravity, for example, is a theory which observation has proven to be untrue. Real scientific theories ALWAYS stipulate conditions by which they can be disproven.

    Beliefs work like this: I KNOW that this is true, and it doesn’t matter to me how many facts you put in front of me which, in the ordinary course of events, could be considered an absolute proof that my belief is wrong, I will still know that my belief is true.

    So I while I understand what you’re saying, my own take is that an atheist who can make those diferentiations is less gulled than a believer who cannot. I make no comment on intelligence, because the causes of religious belief nullify that kind of argument; we believe with absolute certainty that which we are taught as infants; it’s an evolved survival mechanism, and what we learn at that young age usually stays with us for life. See Richard Dawkins’ “The Virus of Faith” commentary for a fuller explanation.

  27. Hey Mr A. regarding, my earlier comment about your statement regarding the purpose of “religious institutions”, perhaps we are thinking of different things. “When you say the “hierarchy” of religions, what exactly do you mean?

    Are you talking about religious organizations in general like you local Evangelical free church where you have a pastor and a flock? Or are you talking specifically about religions with very regimented leadership structures like the Catholicism, where (for example) the Pope is higher up in the latter than a friar (or whatever), and everything has to be approved by the Roman Catholic church in Rome type deal?

  28. It’s scientifically proven that average theist is dumber than the average non-theist.

    It’s pretty obvious really, if you lack the intelligence to question your beliefs you will remain a sheepish theist that follows rather than thinks for him/herself.

    As for athiests thinking they are cleverer than non theists, I don’t know for sure. Most atheists online can quote scripture, scientific studies and analyse psychological behaviour to a MUCH higher degree against a thiest.

    I’ve yet to see a SINGLE theist win a logical rational argument against an atheist and this is SINCE THE KNOWN BEGINNING OF HISTORY!

    So maybe these atheists that actually are clever, can give theists something to look up to as an achievement: mastery of their thought capacity.

    I think people get pissed off because they dont like being shown up to be less intelligent in a conversation, which is inevitably (and statistically) what happens when theist and atheist meet.

  29. custador

    “The Truth
    May 31, 2008 at 11:48 pm
    It’s scientifically proven that average theist is dumber than the average non-theist”

    That is the most ludicrous bullshit I have ever read.

    1) Science is never really proven (see my post above);

    2) Theism has got fuck-all to do with intelligence and EVERYTHING to do with environment;

    3) Quote your sources, you arrogant prick! Show me the “scientific proof”; show me a list of every religion vs. science debate in history together with a potted summary of the outcomes.

    It’s wankers like you that Angry Aussie was talking about; you knw absolutely fuck-all about the subject, yet still vent-forth with pseudo-authority based solely on the fact that you believe your atheism makes you superior. In short, you’re a complete and total cunt.

    By the way, just to clarify for those who didn’t read my earlier post, I’m an atheist.

    Sorry if I stole some of your angry thunder, Angry Aussie, but “The Truth” needed ranting at for being such a prick.

  30. simon

    Noes!! they have brought the religious arguments to your page :S

  31. The Truth wrote:
    “It’s scientifically proven that average theist is dumber than the average non-theist…”

    LOL. That can’t possibly be true, can it (not least because my experience tells me that I shouldn’t place too much “faith” in science!)? I’ll tell you what: I’ll pretend to be a God-fearing something-or-other, and you can try to whip my ass in argument, if you like!

    Matt

  32. simon

    Science is not a religion first off.
    Lets both inject ourselves with a lethal poison, you go to a church and pray for god to cure you, i’ll go to a hospital and ask a doctor to help me (medical science vs god)
    I’ll pay for your coffin if i win :D

  33. I believe in YOU Mr. Angry!

    Thank you for this heartfelt, fuck-all post! BRILLIANT. Wonderful commentary too. I’ve been sick to fucking death of this debate since 1983.

    YOU GO custador! When Jeebus returns, he will disprove EVERY theory. Scientists will be crying in the streets, along with the devout of every faith.

    Amen.

  34. A guy: There are some things I regard as litmus tests (like if you believe in creationism you’re a fucking moron) but my whole point is saying one belief points to your innate superiority is stupid.

    HJ: Why are you so scared of embracing your beliefs? I don’t get that.

    Custador: I don’t think you did get my point. My point is that someone who professes atheism alone makes them smarter than all religious people is a deluded fool.

    Phyre: by hierarchies I mean the structure put in place in formal religious institutions

    “Truth”: I have no idea if you’re being ironic or if you really are that stupid.

    Custador: Best not to waste too much energy with that that type.

    Simon: I brought it :)

    Matt: That delusion probably comes from the fact that statistically atheists/agnostics are more likely to have reached a higher level of education than religious types. That little statistical fact in no way supports the idiotic statement made by that commenter.

    Simon: I’m a rationalist – if you inject yourself with poison then show up at my hospital I’ll let you die ;)

    David: What can I say? I like pushing people’s buttons.

  35. custador

    “David Levine
    June 2, 2008 at 11:53 am
    I believe in YOU Mr. Angry!

    YOU GO custador! When Jeebus returns, he will disprove EVERY theory. Scientists will be crying in the streets, along with the devout of every faith.

    Amen.”

    Did you read my posts at all? Seriously? I mean, more than one sentence?

  36. Pingback: Bruce Llama » Blog Archive » Atheist Bigots

  37. BA

    Eh, I really think you are railing against the group of atheists that want to call themselves “The Brights” and those of that ilk.
    And have at it. I’ve always felt that their intention was decent, but they were just too fucking pompous to pull it off right. (Their argument is that the word “atheist” carries a negative connotation and should be replaced by one with a positive connotation that makes you sound like a total douche when you say it).

    But I’m an atheist. Fuck all the connotation. I believe in exactly zero supernatural entities. I am completely and utterly without god(s). I am as the ancient Greeks would say, atheist.

    However, I object to your classifying atheism as a belief system and will also respond with a pithy canned reply: “Atheism is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby.”

    Being atheist is hard in conversation. A lot of people define themselves by religious affiliation. People say, “I’m Catholic” or “I’m Jewish”. So when the question comes around to the atheist, what can he say? “None”? But that includes people who believe in a god, but don’t ascribe to any particular religion. The best we can do is to distill it down to a word that means we don’t believe in shit.

    Then people have to wonder why you’re an atheist. What happened? Etc. As if it takes some life-altering trauma to make you give up and hate god(s).
    Yes, hate is always implied in the questioning. You must hate god to not believe in him. So as an atheist, you come into a discussion at a disadvantage. Not only do you have to prove that you don’t hate god (which naturally only proves that you love god and therefore secretly believe), but you have to explain how you can both not hate god and not believe in him.

    I’ll try to explain it by using an analogy.
    You woke up yesterday. You ate breakfast, you drank coffee, you went to work, you came home, you went to sleep. A pretty routine day. Nothing major happened, you were concerned mostly with trivial work details and whatever leisure activities you had planned for that evening.
    The next day, the utility bill comes in. You spend your day similarly, but now you check you checking account for appropriate funds and transfer anything necessary to cover both any outstanding balances and this new bill.
    God is something like that for me. I don’t think about it most days. I go about my way and do my things and live my life the best way I know how. Then something occurs that makes me think of god, religion, and the whole shebang. One day, I realized that for the most part, I function as if there is no god. My choices don’t ever dwell on the approval of some supernatural deity.
    On that day, I decided to make my position official. From there, and being a natural skeptic and cynic, I started looking at the god question in terms of everything. I then realized that the only rational position in which the world could reliably exist would be if that the supernatural did not exist.
    Existence and the supernatural are contradictory qualities.

  38. Beth

    Hey dipshit, I guess saying “fuck” a lot makes your opinion a lot more intelligent. And everyone who’s an atheist must be a bigot, and your rant is completely valid.

    Also, you’re not being bigoted AT ALL by making generalizations about atheists thinking they are smarter than everyone. Don’t you think that there are religious people who believe that they are smarter than those who don’t believe in God? It’s bound to happen. I’m an atheist, and I think I’m right. It’s just the way it works, you’re bitching about nothing.

    Atheism isn’t a belief system. And if you still want to convince yourself that it is, and that being agnostic is the only way to go, well then you’re basically saying that that is a belief as well.

    You clearly think you are smarter than anyone, fuckhead. (Hey look! I can swear too!) I can’t believe you have a blog.

  39. Beth wrote:
    “…I can’t believe you have a blog.”

    And yet, there it is: bold as brass. Fuck me! It’s one thing to have an argument about whether or not God exists, but at least we have the excuse that we’ve never seen the guy (if “guy” He be) – to not believe in something that’s right in front of you seems to be taking the whole nihilism thing a bit far!

    Matt

  40. BA: I agrre with you that the attitude of some religious people that atheism must be a reaction to some traumatic event is bloody stupid – it’s a logical thought process. Note that I don’t consider belief system and religion to be synonymous. I think religion is stupid. I think belief systems are something everyone has (it doesn’t mean blind faith, it means what you believe.)

    Beth: Wow. Just wow. I couldn’t have asked for a better illustration of the sort of arrogant, ignorant moron I’m talking about. Thanks for proving my points for me.

    Matt: Just one of the stupid elements of that comment. Nicely dissected.

  41. Aislinn

    No, atheists don’t have the market cornered on bigotry, but neither do the religous nuts. And do you believe that there is no God(s)? Then congrats, you have a belief system. Just because you believe something is true doesn’t mean that you are right, and just because I believe that something is true does not me that I am right. I just think I am, and so do you. I think that that is what Mr. Angry was getting at, but I could be wrong about that too.;-) And it’s his fucking blog, so it’s his fucking right to fucking swear all the fuck he wants to. ;-P

  42. heresiarch

    atheism is a term to refute the existence of god: it is not a religion- the only reason it has a name is to differentiate it from theism. Most atheists I know reject the idea of a god to start with, and this “tag” is convenient for labelling only.

  43. Why not get really defensive?

  44. Modern crusader

    You, sir, are complite asshat, dickface and fucktard. Like every atheist.

    ALL atheists are fucking cunts, and they’ve well deserved to be throwed in the concentration camps. In fact, atheism is poison, it’s a virulent plague, like atheists, and it needs to be purged.

    Only we, the religious people, are the elite of human race. It doesn’t matter what religion you follow (although you damn better be fundamental christian, or else…!) , only thing that matters is that you’re religious.

    I believe that there will come a time, when all atheists will be finally killed off. Their families too shall be destroyed.

    I can barely wait that day. Death to all atheists!

    PS: Every fucktard out there who thinks that this was sarcasm: suck my cock you fucking asshole!

  45. @Modern crusader, you wrote.

    “ALL atheists are fucking cunts, and they’ve well deserved to be throwed in the concentration camps. In fact, atheism is poison, it’s a virulent plague, like atheists, and it needs to be purged.”

    I guess your a religious extremist or more to the point a fascist. You are calling for the murder of people who have a deference of opinion. That is a crime.

    @Angry

    I have believed, not believed, believed, not believed. I have to agree that religious or atheist views are extremism. I see that in the Bible, Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within. This is similar in many philosophies. Since everyone experience reality or non-reality differently, then it’s impossible to prove to another something that can only be experience by personal experience.

  46. @heresiarch, you wrote.

    “atheism is a term to refute the existence of god: it is not a religion- the only reason it has a name is to differentiate it from theism.”

    I would have to agree with Angry here. You hold your views with extremism, yes another ism. Very defensive and very touchy. I can understand why some people become atheist when they see the hypocrisy of deeply religious people.

    You can only declare yourself a atheist when you have some understanding of belief systems covering the full spectrum of eastern and western philosophy. If you do not have this understanding then you have a belief or ism.

  47. Squinch

    Modern Crusader, under which belief system is the mass murder of infidels promoted?

    If you honestly believe people who don’t believe in a God should be killed, then are you saying that the millions of people born into circumstances where they are not exposed to religion should be killed also? Are they expected to find God and learn religious fundamental practices by themselves?

    Your argument is fucked. Shut the fuck up you Grotty grotty sarcastic wanker

  48. Aislinn

    Either Modern Crusader is just really good at parody, or he/she/it is a complete wank. I don’t believe that MC is an adult yet, either way.

  49. Modern cocksucker: It’s so hard to tell the difference between stupidity and sarcasm online

    Alan: You seem to have gotten my point :) I’m not fond of extreme dogmatists of any persuausion.

    Squinch: He is indeed a wanker.

    Aislinn: A complete lack of sophistication no matter what he was trying to do.

  50. Karl

    Angry,

    I agree with the general spirit of your post. Arrogance and bigotry are not human virtues. That’s for sure.

    But when you said..

    “Why are some atheists so scared to admit that they are following a deeply held belief rather than some objective reality? What the hell is wrong with belief?”

    ..it gave me pause.

    When Pierre LaPlace brought a copy of his work to Napolean, and Napolean asked him why he omitted God from his scientific theory, LaPlace simply responded that it was not necessary to put God in the picture. The world of science does not contain “beliefs.” Science has hypotheses, and they’re tested before they become theories. If you held a ball at waist height and said “I believe this
    ball will fall to the ground when I let it go,” people might snicker. They *know* the theory of gravity predicts that it will fall. They don’t *believe* it. What I’m getting at is this very basic question that has been asked since antiquity: Where does knowledge end and belief begin? Why do we laugh at someone who disputes common or scientific knowledge but simultaneously accept a “belief” (or lack thereof) in God? After all, a theist and an athiest cannot both be right, objectively speaking. But why do we accept the concept of belief as valid in the first place?

    Now, some may doubt science or empirical evidence and thereby classify science itself as “belief.” We can say “nothing is true, other than to the extent that we agree on it.” We can also say “the only thing for sure is that nothing is for sure.” If we do this, we paint ourselves into a proverbial corner. This is the slippery slope toward self-doubt.

    All of this may be opening an epistemilogical can of worms, but.. While I’m not “scared” to admit deeply held “beliefs,” I do think the concept of belief itself is something we as humans could do without. Drop it; it’s dead weight. There’s a line in a recent song lyric that says “I don’t believe in belief,” which was actually stolen from Richard Dawkins. As paradoxical as it may sound, it actually rings true for me. I prefer to substitute “I believe” with “There is a preponderence of evidence that.” Yes, I am a science guy. If you have no evidence to support your theory, you’re just whistling in the dark.

    Here is a dialog from the movie Dogma, that I find quite interesting:

    Bethany: Having beliefs isn’t good?
    Rufus: I think it’s better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can’t generate. Life becomes stagnant.

    Karl

  51. Hey Karl,
    what I don’t get is the tendency of some people to obsess over semantics. Belief is a word. idea is another word. Arguing about definitions gets pointless very quickly.

    Anyone who thinks they *know* everything is in serious trouble, whether they use science or religion as their crutch. As I believe I made agonisingly clear, I was not attacking atheism, I was attacking bigoted people who seem to believe that their professed atheism justifies behaving like total dicks.

  52. Jesse

    Hi Aussie, you said “Atheism is a belief system the same as any religion.”

    Actually, that is not true. Atheism include lack of belief in God, not just sureness that there is no God. Actually, even the most artent Atheists have said this. Just as we don’t believe in fairies for simple lack of proof, we don’t believe in God. Unverifyable evidence does not count, such as Christ’s image in a potato chip.

  53. Karl

    Mr. Angry,

    I’m not claiming to know everything, and neither are you. But can’t we strive to know what we know, and know what we don’t know? Belief is not the way to reach that goal. And actually, if you want to know where this “arrogance” and “bigotry” comes from, look no further than belief itself. Why is there racism in the world? Because people *believe* in the superiority of themselves over others. Why do hijackers crash planes into buildings? Because they *believe* they will be rewarded in heaven. The list goes on and on…

    Belief, be it in God, heaven, hell, astrology, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster leads to strife most of the time. The rest of the time it just impedes progress.

    I wouldn’t dismiss science as another belief system. I could expound on that, but I don’t want to fill up your blog space.

  54. This talk about issues concerning belief is just nonsense. This is a 5,000 year of debate where no agrees. The God we are told about in western civilization (or Christian Bible) is just ridiculous. From my perspective both Theism or Atheism or any other ism are mere belief systems.

    What ever you want to call it, God, Chi, Prana, The Golden Light, it is real, it exist and it is not felt by the five senses of the body. It can only be known by direct personal experience and no manner of words can express it.

    In saying this I see myself no better or worse than another person and my experience can not be compared with another person’s experience. All I can suggest is to look within and let your intuition guide you.

  55. Squinch

    Hey Karl,

    The Flying Speghetti Monster is the only true God. Don’t dismiss him as just a *belief* system as well!

  56. Jesse: if you’re not going to be swayed by a potato chip then you’re a minion of satan

    Karl: I disagree pretty much entirely with the concept that science and/or atheism aren’t belief. They’re not the same as the blind faith practiced in most religions but quite frankly, the unwillingness of some people to admit they “believe” rather than “know” shits me to tears.

    Alan: I prefer to aim for understanding objective reality as much as possible

    Squinch: Teach the controversy!

  57. Minh Tran

    i really enjoyed this article/blog/rant whatever people call it. i have to absolutely agree with about 99% of what you said.

    not every religion believes other religions are wrong. yes, i’m catholic, one of the most hardcore christians next to evangelicals. but my catholic church (vietnamese catholic) believes that no one religion is more right or wrong then others. everyone who lives a moral life goes to heaven regardless of whether someone has a religion or are just atheist

  58. Wise words :) I know many religious people who do not denigrate the beliefs of others or arbitrarily condemn them to hell. However, every religion by definition declares that all other religions are wrong, otherwise there is no reason for that particular religion to exist.

  59. Modern crusader

    @ Mr Angry: so, it seems i hurted your petty feelings, you little bitch. Good, you’ve showed to be just as fucked up, cocksucking, arrogant asshole like all other atheists.

    You are not worthy to even kiss my ass, so go fuck Dawkins you pussy.

  60. So that’s the sort of thing you think about while masturbating? Me kissing your arse while fucking Richard Dawkins? You are one kinky devil! Did the parish priest introduce you to those ideas?

  61. Vladimir

    Maybe he is referring to “Kissing Hank’s ass”?

  62. Squinch

    modern crusader: owned, bitches

  63. Davross

    Angry: Seems as though Modern Crusader is on the same level as bigoted atheists as bigoted religion heads.

    Modern Crusader: Give yourself a history lesson and search the crusades on whatever website takes your fancy, i’m sure you’ll find that your as fucked up as your name sake and us atheists share the same belief about religion because of what happened in the crusades for a reason. Just in case your too lazy to give yourself a history lesson i may as well give you one since your fucked up Christian thought processes probably forbid you to think for yourself.

    Any way as i was saying back in the good old days the Pope wanted to send everyone man and his dog to war to kill off innocent CHRISTIANS and other religions and retake the holy land. So as the story goes every man and his dog were sent down their and they spit roasted babies and normal stuff like that.

    So as you can see, thats why i reject religion, no not just for what happened during the crusades but because of the belief in a God can persuade people out of their normal human thinking and go and burn babies of their own religion. Also the thought that i need a God to tell me what to do shits me to tears. These are only a handful of reasons why i do not like religion but anyway, i know you probably think this is stupid, but it might get you to think for yourself and that’s my plain message. If you think this is a pointless message go fuck yourself you retarded cock-muncher.

  64. Aislinn

    MC, begone, before somebody drops a house on you!

  65. So we’re in agreement about MC being an embarrassment to humanity then? :)

  66. Squinch

    It would appear to be a consensus, yes

  67. Pingback: nothing happens :: echo chamber, aug. 30, 2008

  68. jr

    they pray to a bitch spelled backwards is dog.

    alert(“did you disable js”);

    and then …

  69. loquacious

    I’m slightly confused. I don’t want to be a bigot or anything. I don’t hold a solid belief that there is or isn’t a god so I don’t consider myself atheist. However, when people sit there and outright deny something with such sound evidence, something like evolution or geological time, I can’t help but think I’m smarter than them.

    I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone who holds a firm belief in god or holds a firm belief in the lack of one, nor do I think I’m smarter than anyone who has religious beliefs, I’ve met a lot of smart people who are religious.

    Would you say it was OK to think you are smarter than the entirety of people who have these convictions, or would that make me a bigot?

    The definition of a bigot is someone who uses a generalization about a group of people to pass judgement on them.

    Basically I’m talking about fundamentalists, because I belief there is something deeply and inherently wrong with anyone that is a fundamentalist, and really the things I don’t like about them are what make them fundamentalists to begin with. It’s not really a generalization to say that all fundamentalists have insanely medieval logic, because its that logic that puts them into the category to begin with. I don’t think anyone actually considers them a fundamentalist, it’s a label put on them for their thoughts and idea about the world.

    I feel bad thinking the way I do, but I can’t help but think that anyone who is so completely fundamental in their values as to think that women really were made from a rib 6000 years ago is much less intelligent than me.

    Set me straight Mr. Angry.

  70. loquacious

    Also, sorry about the grammatical errors and the mixed up order of things I wrote. I forgot to take the time to edit it thoroughly before I submitted it. :(

  71. @loquacious

    Where did you happen to learn that science of Evolution? I dare say it came from your schooling. Do you know much about Charles Darwin’s family? A very interesting family that liked to intermarry. Yes, his own theory would suggest that intermarrying does not help.

    A clue, you have two theories that contradict each other. You then let people attack each other from the extremes of the belief spectrum and you get to limit the debate within the constructs of what is being debated. This limit of debate could be understood as a mental box or mental prison.

    Have you heard of the term, “thinking outside the box?” Also who is it that sets the limits of the debate?

  72. loqacious: I thought I was pretty clear – people who say the simple fact they profess to be an atheist makes them automatically smarter than anyone and everyone who believes in a god are idiots. That said, I personally think people who give religious belief primacy over rational thinking and scientific exploration are idiots.

  73. Dragon

    “Atheism is a religion”

    “Atheism is not a religion”

    Both are correct. Atheism is, at its core, simply a lack of theistic belief. If you let it go at that, then you are a negative or weak atheist. That is not at all religious.

    If, however, you go further and assert that god does not exist, then you are a positive or strong atheist. Unless you have proof or evidence for that proposition, you are maintaining a positive belief in a thing on the basis of faith, and that makes you religious.

  74. I think religious is a loaded term. I don’t see anything wrong with the word “belief” and I think any professed atheist who gets their knickers in a knot over it is more than a touch paranoid.

  75. Gimel

    Religion and its phenomenon are much much bigger than your limited generalizations of them.

  76. custador

    Dragon, you’re full of shit. Atheism is not a religion and never will be. You’re “strong” and “weak” atheist comments are fucking laughable at best. You’re failing utterly to grasp the difference between the opposite of a thing – for example: “You’re God doesn’t exist! MY God does!”, and the absence of a thing – for example: “There aren’t any Gods. Now stop fucking fighting and shut the fuck up before I bitch-slap you both”.

    An atheist is always an atheist, and as such has no religious belief. What there are, though, are people who think that organised reliogions are extremely fucking dangerous and should be challenged over their medieval population control techniques because they think they’re fucking evil.

  77. Gimel: given the obvious limits of your intellect I think I’m safe in ignoring you.

    Custador: I would agree that the “religion” label is totally inappropriate. Which is not to say unthinking zealots don’t exist on the atheist side.

  78. Cuddly

    Nice article.

    I’d just like to counter a point some people above are making – nobody has to “justify” their belief system to anyone else as long as they aren’t trying to shove it down the throats of other people. Religions have done that a lot over the years, but these bigoted atheists are doing the exact same thing now.

    Also – atheism is not the same thing as science. Science is a method of predicting the outcome of physical phenomena based upon repeatable experimentation, atheism is a belief system the same as the Church of Satanism or whatever else you want to pluck out of the air. Get off the fucking high horse Karl. For everyone who died in 9/11 for a “religious” cause (anti-USA fanatics from the Mid-East) there were a dozen who died in the Slovoki Camp of Special purpose just because they were religious and Stalin decided he that atheism needed to be implimented across the country with force.

    Extremism is the danger, and it doesn’t come from atheism or religion, but from a complete refusal to accept the possibility that the other guy might just have a point.

  79. GMNightmare

    … well, you are quite uninformed sir.

    Saying:
    “The idea that any ‘supreme being’ could possibly give a shit what us insignificant insects get up to is laughable.”
    is the same thing as saying:
    “I think believing in god is stupid”
    You’re just saying it in a nicer way, it is BS to think you are saying otherwise. In other words:
    “shut the fuck up you egotistical, self-deluding simpleton.”
    And also:
    “The fact that someone who would say that is too stupid to see the inherent logical contradiction would be funny if it wasn’t sad.”

    Throughout the article, you also seem to have many blatant errors of thought, like:
    “Atheism is a belief system the same as any religion.”
    No, it isn’t. Atheism is a devoid of belief, meaning, you simply don’t have a belief in a god. It’s not a belief system. Get it? Even if it was the belief that there was no god (which assumes existence of god), it’s a single belief, therefore it is not a system. It’s not a belief though. It’s not a religion, it’s not a ideology, it’s not a philosophy, it’s not a creed, it’s not a world view, it’s not anti-religion, it’s not knowing there is no god: it’s simply the lack of belief in a god. It’s the opposite of theism, which is none of the above as well. Atheism and theism, simply profess a whether or not you have a belief in god.

    On that note, all non-theistic agnostics are atheists, they are only delusional/misinformed that they are not. Can you put 2 and 2 together and tell me why?

    “You can’t prove that god doesn’t exist any more than anyone can prove god does exist.”
    Maybe not, but I can prove that a Christian god doesn’t exist, or a Greek god doesn’t exist, and so forth. Simply because they give constraints and details to their god, which can be proven false or erroneous. You’ll find that people almost never have a problem with theism, they have a problem with religion. Understand? Am I getting through to you? It’s hard to tell.

    “incapable of making the concession they could be wrong”
    And why wouldn’t they be? They haven’t been proven or shown otherwise. They haven’t been given any reason to be. What’s your favorite food? Have you made the concession that you could be wrong about your favorite food? I mean, what if you just haven’t tried your favorite food yet, and somebody showed you that your really like this new food you’ve never had the best? Yes, that is how BS your argument really amounts to when it comes down to it. Have you made the concession that wearing a jacket, you know, might not really keep you warmer? No? What if I put ice inside that jacket? Now it’ll keep you colder. Tsk tsk, you shouldn’t have been so arrogant…

    But no, really, refer to the first paragraph basically every time you speak about the religious, as you basically amount to saying “I think believing in god is stupid” in fancier and fluffier terms. Really, I think there is no better audience to this blog post than yourself.

    In fact, on this note, I think you just have a problem with others like yourself.

  80. Uninformed? Religion is a crutch for weak, mindless fool who want some magic man in the sky to take care of their problems. YOU ARE PATHETIC! A weak, snivelling pathetic little freak with obviously delusional beliefs.

    I’ll go further than saying your belief in god is stupid: YOU ARE A PATHETIC WORTHLESS CUNT. Fuck you and fuck every delusional piece of shit like you!

  81. GMNightmare

    Umm…

    I’m not religious. I’m quite clearly atheist by my post… if you couldn’t tell.

    What my comment basically boiled down to, since you obviously didn’t read it, is that you are pretty much the audience for your own post here. I’m going to assume it was just too big for you to read.

    And your above comment really just affirms that. Now would you actually like to comment on what I said? Or would you like to make a reply based only upon my “Umm…”, as clearly you didn’t make it past the first sentence in my first comment…

    Or maybe you did, but just couldn’t comprehend it?

  82. I could tell you were a complete cunt from your post. I couldn’t give flying fuck about what delusions compel you to act like such a cunt.

  83. goldoildrugz

    fuck christians!

    fuck people who say “fuck christians”!

    i say fuck people who think identifying cliches makes them original

    i.e.

    fuck you

  84. goldoildrugz

    p.s.

    if you really want to exhibit edgy panache, why don’t you instead single out islam (aka the religion of peace)?

    now that would be breaking barriers… as far as talking about things that people aren’t to talk about goes, pointing out that christianity celebrates a dude who washed the feet of paupers while islam celebrates a warlord who united tribes to conquer cities is right up there.

    that would be edgy and original, playboy

    • Wow, you’re a pathetic fucked up loser moron who believes in imaginary men in the sky AND you’re a bigot too! Wow, what a package! You you really are the worst sort of snivelling cunt. Fuck off and die you worthless shitstain on humanity.

  85. Adam

    People who do not have a belief in any sort of god are automatically smarter than people who do.

    I’ll understand if you don’t agree.

  86. Raichu

    You’re as thoughtful as ever, Angry Aussie. A truly terrific source of entertainment.

  87. agnostic

    Bullshit, atheists have a right to tell off christians even when they get it wrong, why because ultra bigot atheists arent the ones in charge of our world. The cancer that is the christian ideology must be stamped out.

  88. agnostic

    BABY JESUS GETTING FUCKED IN THE ASS, SUCK IT CHRISTFAGS!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOW TO YOUR PRICK OF A GOD IN HELL, OH WAIT THERE ISNT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  89. Tim

    Maybe explicit atheism could be called a “belief system”, but implicit/weak atheism can’t be called that.

    I’m guessing you were aware of that, but chose not to acknowledge it your emotional rant ;-)

  90. Very interesting post. I know it’s old, but I just found it.

    I think it’s a shame people tend to think that religious ideas are always in conflict with reason. Doesn’t help that the creationists have such a loud voice.

    I liked Karl’s comment about the importance of holding ideas rather than beliefs. I think it all boils down to admitting that we don’t know why the universe exists. We can have ideas, but we shouldn’t hold any of our ideas with certainty.

    Science-based atheism seems to have this underlying assumption that only scientific knowledge is of any value. But religious ideas would not have persisted if they had no value to people, and while they can be dangerous, they can also be life-enriching. It’s when people deny this that I get frustrated.

    DOA’s comment made me laugh till tears rolled down my face. Perhaps I am just in a weird mood… but I found it hilarious!

  91. John Alvarez

    Nice post, well about the atheists anyways. People just need to shut the fuck up because they believe that they are better and smarter, agreed. People who bend words around who try to make others believe should also shut the fuck up. It is imperative that these idiots shut the fuck up because it is so awesome to tell these loud whiny atheists to shut the fuck up because they deserve to shut the fuck up just as much as a religious fundamentalist, who should shut the fuck up because they are both retards and should shut the fuck up immediately. So if you are one of these, shut the fuck up.

  92. Joe

    Atheists are the biggest fucking losers that ever existed.
    They whine constantly over nothing.
    No one is cramming religion down their throats or anything of the sort, yet they bitch nonstop anyway.
    All they are are worthless, useless pieces of shit that cause people who might otherwise enjoy science to hate it because of their stupid arrogant attitude.
    The world will shine a lot brighter when the atheists have gone.
    And it will be a lot more tolerant place too.

  93. qazqaz2qasx

    Athiesm, the arrogant belief that this enormous universe wasn’t created for weak humans

  94. Drew

    1) Atheism does not make the claim that god does not exist, it rather simply dendies the claim that he does. It is a fallacy to think that atheists must provide proof that god does not exist because this is not their claim in the first place.
    2) Atheism is not a religion, nor is it a belief system. It is the complete lack of both. While there are institutions given to ideas of morality and ethics without god (Church of Atheism, Church of Secular Humanism, and so on) these institutions do not represent Atheists as a whole. In Fact, only a very small portion of Atheists in America actually participate in these institutions.

  95. TCS Mallay

    Great post!
    I concider myself a liberal, and not particularly religious- but I think people are free to follow any religion they want, provided they are not using violence, or demanding I convert. I have a problem with athiests who complain about the bigotry of Christians by exercising bigotry against Christians. It’s a double standard. Athiests often mock the very idea of religion, and insult people who are religious. Sure, there are some very hateful fundamentalist Christians and muslims, but there are also some athiests whose hatred is right up there. The arrogance of athiests is pretty annoying. The fact is there is no way to know if there is or isn’t a higher power- so athiests can no more claim there is no god than religious people can claim there is a god.

  96. fantastic! all this while ive been waiting to hear this. ive come across many atheists, but i have NEVER come across a humble polite down to earth atheist…they love wallowing in their own world…freakin obstinate..for them, people are shit, they can complain 24/7 how this world is shit, but these ppl, thats all they do, moan and bitch but they do NOTHING to make this a better place. no one is involved in comunity stuff etc. arrogant, selfish bastards. note i know not all atheists are like this, this is my own personal experience. peace :D

  97. Sheila Heart

    You are SO right! Sanctimony on both sides! I am a proud Jewish, Existential Absurdist (a la Albert Camus) but believe something is “out there” al a Near Death Experices, Hedonist who is comfortable enough in her own skin to deal with the ambiuity that presents! Sheesh! No one knows nothing about the whole thing and the more we learn the less we actuall “know”. Get over yourselves..both sides!

  98. Jnwaco

    Because burden of proof lies with existence, just as burden of proof lies with guilt; in other words, nonexistent until proven existent just as innocent until proven guilty. That’s just the way science works.

    This is idiocy. That’s the standard for guilt in a courtroom. Fortunately, I don’t have to convince you that my beliefs are true in order for me to have warrant for my beliefs. And you can yell all day long about burden of proof, the claim that God does not exist is every bit as grand as the claim that God does exist.

    And it’s NOT the way science is supposed to work. Science is supposed to say “I don’t know” until they have some empirical evidence one way or another.

    The fact that you botch the burden of proof argument, propose that non-belief should be the default position (as opposed to agnosticism), and the fact that you don’t know how science really should work simply betrays your bias and your atheist talking points.

    It’s no different than the crackpot quack Michio Kaku getting on the Discovery Channel (whom he has a 2-year $contract$ with) and pronouncing string theory as gospel truth like so many car salesmen (with no disclaimer that string theory hasn’t been tested, makes no predictions, etc.). Why does he do this? Becuase saying “I don’t know” doesn’t pay as well, lol.

  99. Andy

    I think the more important questions to ask are:

    Who made God?

    – AND –

    If I’m an Atheist because of evidence pointing to non-existence of deities or God(s), how is it the kind of belief you refer to?
    To quote:
    “confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief. ” — Dictionary.com

    The rigorous proof of Atheism is the lack thereof for deities and God(s). This is in addition to the psychology and study of where religion originated from. As well as the logic barrier the super natural ideas impose.

    The super natural can be proven, it just requires a super natural life-form to come and clearly defy the laws of physics… something which has never happened.

    There is no proof of the existence of fairies and unicorns, so why make an exception for God? I understand that claiming Atheism being the correct truth may seem unfair and rude, but the same can be said for one animal killing and eating another.

    If you feel as though I am incorrect, give a real argument back, and not STFU. Remember that video you made? Yeah… don’t be a hypocrite, if you have no compelling argument, then don’t expect me to agree. I would love to see this “scientific evidence” of the after-life… ;)

  100. Actually read the post you fucking moron. If you’re too fucking stupid to process it then you’re exactly the sort of cunt it’s aimed at.

    • Andy

      OK, I did a crappy job of putting my thoughts into English. My comment was mostly referring to the comments of others (which I did not clearly label), but also was responding to the latter part of your blog post. I had fully read and thought about the ideas and points you wrote.

      Here’s my second try:

      The gist of your post: “Atheism is a belief, just as much as believing in God, so don’t act like you or your beliefs are better!”. You are incorrect, being an atheist means not believing. It means not mentally accepting the ideas of divine creation or deities as reality. Atheism does not automatically mean accepting an alternate theory or explanation. Newborn babies are atheist, for example.

      I will point out how the word “Belief” is mangled. It can mean either accepting an idea as true, without any evidence neither for nor against. Or, it can mean accepting an idea as true, with respect to supporting evidence. These are two different things. Some beliefs are in fact correct, and some are in error. Beliefs are the mental registration of reality.

      Why are erroneous beliefs a bad thing? There are many examples of where having an incorrect understanding of the world around you causes issues.

      People who reject proven facts (such as the Earth being 4.6 billion years old, and the fact of biological evolution) are sometimes dangerous. They also are spreading their misconceptions, which causes damage. Children who are sent to religious schools where they are taught the opposite of proven fact, the opposite of using reason and logical thinking, and taught common misconceptions/myths as truth are being hurt by that. These various belief systems advocate to avoid and reject reason along with logical thinking.

      This is a problem. Some children have been encouraged to reject and confront what they are taught in biology class. These same people also promote the mass discrimination of homosexual persons, on belief of them being possessed by demons. These are not educated people. These are a few examples where from very crazy to mainstream belief is a bad thing.

      But are they less intelligent? Possibly, they are showing how they have failed to use reason and logical thinking. They could also just be ignorant, possibly in part due to their parents censoring scientific fact. The idea of God(s) is easier to explain and comprehend without knowledge, magic always is. But sometimes, the belief of the supernatural as fact is due to emotional distress.

      Of course it’s rude to insult people for their provably fictitious beliefs, and it’s probably not going to make them question those beliefs any more. But just keep in mind, a lot of these people are parading around non-sense as truth, much of which has in fact been proven false. Most of these people are uneducated, and possibly unintelligent. And those who are educated on the matter and are very intelligent apparently don’t wish to think about it. So if anything, it’s valid as a stereotype.

      Are atheists more intelligent and more knowledgeable only because they are atheists? No, because atheism means not having certain beliefs, this applies even if you never heard the concept of God.

      The main mistake I really want to point out about your blog post: it calls atheism a belief system, and that just is not true. It only twists the English language. Atheism is *not* believing in God(s) or deities, and it does *not* impose or suggest an alternate concept on it’s own.

      Atheism is defined as “the absence of belief in the existence of any deities.”. The statement “believing God(s) or deities do not exist is a belief itself” is just a creative word arrangement, you’ll get that same kind of thing from the MPAA’s PR office. It pre-assumes that the concept currently being debated is true and that not accepting it equals a belief system. The statement is founded upon flawed and poisonous logic.

      My reasoning for responding very clearly about the atheist-being-a-belief thing is because it is a common myth, and it further distorts this entire discussion and others. It is the same as saying “That person stole my idea!” No, they COPIED it, big difference. You have just as much of that idea as you did before they copied it. By definition, it is not stealing.

  101. Some Random Guy

    95% of atheists I’ve seen in action assert that non-belief is the default scientific position, as opposed to “I don’t know”. These people need to learn their science. >_>

    “New Atheists” are no better than fundies. And on the Internet, they’re generally worse.

    • Andy

      Many of these people did learn their science, and science greatly disproves important portions of the Bible and other religious texts. This is because God stated things about the physical world which were later proven false.

      The explanation alone of a supernatural god/being creating just the universe is logically questionable, it’s conception was a good start for early peoples. But it is a weak explanation, all it does is move the idea of the universe “just being there” to a supernatural setting. It holds as much weight as saying this entire universe, and everything in it, takes place inside of a computer emulation.

      You can study this physical world, and that will give clues to how it came to be.

  102. What’s a “New Atheist” as opposed to an old atheist? I have no idea. Never heard of “New Atheism” and except for a certain HAWT ( hilarious and het) Angry Aussie, I wouldn’t be asking, Some Random Guy.

    “No better than fundies” and “generally worse” than fundies on the Internet is a pretty big warn-off.

    To me here in California, USA, “fundies” has always included the entire spectrum of those who are dedicated to intrusively outreach and re-shape whatever they choose, to match some version of their collective individually unique religious beliefs, till they collectively believe they’ve converted everyone to whichever version of whichever religion they believe everyone should (must) follow, or until everybody is dead.

    “Fundamentalists” would also include the outright lying “Biblical literalists” (Lev. 20:13 or STFU), the hypocritical christohet, islamohet, judeohet supremacists, the brutally ignorant Republican-inspired-and-operated neo-Christian Nationalists, including the cash-corrupted Bible-thumping politicians and their radical Right-Wing verbal and physical attack thugs, and don’t forget the publicly anti-sex religionist perverts and fundie-protected child molesters.

    “New Atheists” are as bad as that? I didn’t even get to the horrible religious mess internationally. Religions are being used as either an excuse, a cover for grotesque, unnecessary human slaughter, or as a motivating “God-is-leading-our-leaders, God-is-on-our-side” cheerleader for pretty much every regional killing ground.

    I’m attempting to stick to talking about today’s religions and today’s killings for the purposes of this comment.

  103. Regarding the notion that some commenters have expressed, that most or even many atheists are, well, evangelistic about atheism, a quick mental mathematical guesstimate tells me that those atheists are very few who even bother to be rude to religionists, and that’s all we’re talking about, manners, because it is rude to dismiss someone for a single belief or superstition, even if that’s what it is.

    I do dismiss great swathes of religious people outright as less evolved, less intelligent, less something, or missing something. I really can’t say factually what is wrong with these particular people — though I know that their statements and activities are simply wrong, as in incorrect ways to treat other people, for example — but I do feel there is a dangerous flaw still being nurtured in them that humanity will do better without, many moons from now.

    They do come with entire “systems” rather than the common atheists’ absence of the single belief that something as supernatural as God exists or even needs to exist.

    Still, as you state over and over in your subtle, gentle ways, AA, having this single dangerous flaw of belief in talking geckos, for example, as Mormons do, does not necessarily make them less intelligent.

    It seems counter-intuitive but the connection isn’t there. It would be like saying intelligent people don’t have superstitions, when we all know that is a very common human trait and that they probably do, and that it is not based in either intelligent thought or on scientific evidence.

    As I speak I have a man in my house who is my friend, yet I wouldn’t have even spoken to him more than once a few years ago because he’s a racist, and in that regard he is a stupid asshole.

    I don’t think that being an atheist is anywhere near the same as being a believer in a religion. The “default setting” mentioned above seems actually to be not even thinking up the idea that there is a god, until parents and society try to teach us there is, such as teaching us about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Again, the default setting is to not imagine on our own that there is a magic Santa or a Bunny. So if a child is not taught to imagine a god, it is my understanding that they will not, outside of normal fantasies.

    Finally, I hope and probably so do you, those who kill or abuse religionists (Stalin, China, historically dictatorial “socialists” and “communists”, etc.) because they claim not to be religionists themselves are not good representatives of, nor are they focusing on, being atheists. Their agendas have nothing to do with religion or the lack of belief. They’re just homicidal maniacs seeking to advance their own selfish ends.

    • I recommend “The Belief Instinct” by Jesse Bering. It seems the default setting is to be very inclined to see personal agents – such as God – at work in the world and in one’s life. I like the book because it shows how our mind plays tricks on us, but knowledge of this leads the reader to be sympathetic to belief in God rather than dismiss it as stupid.

    • Some Random Guy

      I don’t know enough about the others, but Stalin, at least, actively destroyed religion because it took people’s attention away from him. And if you take a look at any popular YouTube video about religion or lack thereof, I guarantee you’ll find tons of people attacking religion (or, worse, advocating genocide of the religious – yes, these people do exist) like the WBC attacks LGBTs, and with roughly the same reasoning.

      Also, I agree with Sarah on pretty much everything. Except that I’m still agnostic.

  104. Ape

    I love this. Funny how I have never before stumbled on something like this.
    But yes, Mr. Angry, of course there are atheists as bigoted and narrowminded, hateful and condemning as the most deluded bible-basher. Of course there are. Bound to be, if you ask me. I am an atheist. . I think. But I honestly don’t care whether you believe or not, or what you believe in, really. I keep my beliefs where they belong, that is, inside my head, usually, and all I ask is that you return the favor, or at least let me know that what you tell me is of your beliefs, if that is what you do. I prefer to either know, or not know, if I have to be brutally honest, but being human, I can’t help but to believe, sometimes. It’s what most of us do when we don’t know the answer. We guess, reckon, figure, assume, presume, think or whatnot. . .. Oh shit, I’m too tired for this. I am an atheist, in the sense that I cannot fathom why anybody would choose to invent something to believe in, simply to have something to believe in, when it comes to a Divine Entity, by whatever name. In all other aspects of life, though, I find myself doing it all the time.
    The way I see it is this: Color, language, nationality, religion(or not), creed, opinions(generally speaking), none of these matters. Not one tiny bit. What matters is how we treat eachother(and ourselves). And nothing else. It is all we have. I am probably wrong. Nothing might matter one tiny bit, or maybe just one tiny bit. I simply don’t know. And I have been wrong before. I did apologize, though. On both occasions. :P

  105. Some Random Guy

    My mistake; while they do exist on both sides, the “evil” fundies of the religious variety seem to be more common.

    I’ll revise my statement, then: the atheist proselytists are generally worse than their religious counterparts – at least, from what I’ve seen. :/

  106. Some Random Guy

    Oh, and Lev, check out the Wikipedia article on “New Atheism”. It’s a movement spearheaded by Dawkins, Hitchens, et al. that aims to erase all religion from the world or something. >_>

    • Hope you don’t get offended if I don’t look it up for now. To me, it would be a waste of their rare gifts (from nature) for them to chase a goal anywhere close to getting most people to skip religion. New Atheism. Ahh, now I’ve got to check it out. My guess is it’s like 3 or 4 flies trying to eat an entire rotting cow without help.

  107. To “Andy”: NO. You have no fucking idea what I am saying and you make that clear. It’s really fucking simple: ANYBODY who say the simple fact they declare themselves to be an atheist automatically makes them smarter than anyone who declares religious beliefs is a fucking moron. Quite frankly (and I know I’m repeating myself) you come across as exactly the sort of self-satisfied, head-up-your-own-arse cunt this is aimed at. You’re a waste of fucking time.

  108. Levi

    I wholeheartedly agree with you. As a matter of fact, I couldn’t agree more. And I’m saying this as someone who’s highly religious.

    Anyone who irrationally holds to a belief AND refuses to admit they could be wrong AND claims that those who have not come to the same belief as themselves is simply ignorant or stupid; most likely the later. I say they could be ignorant because some people have simply not thought it through that carefully yet. Any religious belief cannot be founded upon scientific evidence. That’s not to say that there’s anything wrong with beliefs. It is to point out this:

    atheistic scientists and archaeologists only become more and more convinced as time goes on that there is no God. Christian scientists and archaeologists only become more and more convinced as time goes on that there is a God. We should all of us, every human being, just learn that facts will always seem to us the way we want them to, and there is NO scientific proof for anything either way. After all, if there were scientific proof for the existence of God, then that would violate the free will of any that “have faith” in Him, because there is no true faith where the truth is already known. Conversely, if there were scientific proof for the existence of God, then there would be no such thing as having atheistic faith. But, since there is no proof…

    We should all STFU, whether religious or atheistic. And I say that for myself too. I’ve given up a long time ago on trying to argue people to my belief. We should all live and let live. I believe what I believe for what I believe are very good reasons (namely, my personal experiences, and perhaps something internal to who I am that is an unexplainable feeling), but I can’t scientifically prove any of it. I’d appreciate it if everyone else would do the same thing with their beliefs and shut the FUCK up.

    Thank you for writing this, Mr. Angry. I respect you.

  109. Christopher V.

    For whatever it is worth, I am kind of tired but I will spill out some of my own thoughts on this subject as best I can in my present state of mind:

    I think that people seek the illusion of control above all else. Some find this in religion. Some find it in the scientific method. Some find it in ideologies. And beliefs and ideologies both require faith without evidence. Concepts like free speech, justice, good and evil and rights have no more rational foundation than religious beliefs. This is the problem with rationalism: it is a system of thought created and utilized by humans. Rationally speaking freewill is impossible to prove, but this fact seems to be ignored by those who want to burn witches without a God on their side. Thomas Paine may seem like great thinker when he articulates his prejudices against religious writings, but he inevitably becomes an idiot by his own rules when he attempts to validate moral positions.

    Rational and scientific minded people often forget that reason is not their friend anymore than it is a friend to the religious minded. Reason does not care about our desire for control and justifications for moral positions. Rationally speaking, there is no evidence that human existence is anything but an arbitrary element of accidental processes. To condemn anyone for thinking irrationally is absurd in this context. According to empirical evidence, all of what we are stems from irrational chemistry to begin with. Who looks at an accident and says “This part right here, that was on purpose”?

    Angry outspoken atheism seems more like a disease than a strength to me because it involves aggressively convincing people that there is but one way in which to perceive existence. It also ignores the fact that the variables involved in coping with self-awareness are far too complicated for intellectual thinking to conquer. And there is the disturbing specter of nihilism creeping around all pragmatic rhetoric; how is someone who reaches out to newly forming minds with the concept that life is meaningless suffering not some kind of serious social threat (or at best a self-serving asshole)? Of course it is difficult for people to get outside of their own heads enough to realize anything like an objective truth when it comes to the human condition.

    Cheers.

    • cuddly

      That’s some real genius thinking right there Christopher V.

      And you posted that while tired? Much kudos to you.

  110. I was willing to go with this argument, until I read this ‘Atheism is a belief system the same as any religion.’
    Atheism in manifestly not a belief system as there is nothing to believe in. Most atheists then appeal to science before making decisions or forming opinions about nature and the universe. Since science seeks to demonstrate it’s findings using objective methods, evidence and verifiable observations it is ultimately a rational position. It’s a position that doesn’t require believe, because the truth can be demonstrated as being true. Believing something that is true to be true, is a more intelligent position to take than believing something that has no verifiable basis.

  111. nelson

    I must say I really like your post, but can I ask you how you feel about some of the youtube atheists? Or the atheist experience? I must say I like both of them but I was meaning to hear what you think

  112. derek

    I agree with you on most things, especially religion being about mind (social) control. However, you are completely twisting the common atheist perspective. I’ve never heard an atheist make an argument that concluded that atheists were in any way superior to believers. Many atheists, at one point in their lives, were believers. Finally, Most christians will call you an atheist, regardless if that’s not what you call yourself.

  113. Well you’re either absurdly sheltered or simply lying.

  114. Fuck Atheists

    A lot of Atheists always try to make it seem like science goes hand-in-hand with their beliefs. Why don’t they just label themselves as scientists? They are always right and it is impossible to convince them otherwise because you have “no proof of a God.” People who believe in a God are constantly expected to prove their belief while ignorant Atheists just sit there, demanding evidence/proof repeatedly. All they are doing is trying to get a rise out of religious people and believers. They are convinced that they are geniuses and people who don’t share their views are brainless retards. Why do Atheists think they get to sit back and not have to prove their beliefs, but Theists do? Because they know there is no God? Because they weren’t the ones who made the claim that there is a God? They are definitely making some sort of claim, and it’s just ridiculous that they demand evidence without having or providing any evidence themselves. Them and their “intelligence.” Pathetic.

  115. Fuck Atheists

    Also, please forgive me for any flaws and/or grammatical errors I might have made in my previous post. I’ve only had 3 hours of sleep in 2 days and I’m fucking tired. >_>

  116. AT Ist

    Great arguement! Sorry I’m late to quickly clear this up. I am atheist. After reviewing the evidence of the major religions I conclude that the probability that any god exists is almost zero. Therefore, tecnically I am agnostic. However, the probability that the universe originated from my bottom is greater than zero so tecnically I am agnostic wrt this position also. It is more practical to call myself atheist wrt both positions.

    This is not a belief. It is a logical conclusion based on the evidence and subect to change if further evidence arises. I have a foot. This is not a belief but a conclusion based on the evidence. I will die old. This is a belief because it is a conclusion without sufficient evidence. Belief begins where evidence is insufficient. 

    Belief is an ancient word we brought down from the trees with us. We can get nearer to the truth by discarding it. The brain concludes by dragging the subject through our instincts, emotions, problem-solving ability, summed experiences of our lives and other facaulties. Conclusions that work or are closer to the truth prove themselves in forms such as mobile phones, geometry, very absorbant tampons and democracy. I would suggest that where emotion and personal experience are heavily weighted in the cerebral processing the conclusions are more beliefy.

    Are atheists more intelligent or educated? Most atheists have studied the scientific method, logic, reason and religion to the extent that they can tackle the arguements of almost all our ancestors combined. Most religious people from the world’s population would not have had sufficient educational opportunities to do this. In countries where education levels are high (Germany, USA) the proportion of atheists is also high and conversely in Africa and Australia there are very few atheists. The proportion of atheists who are leading scientists, artists, philosophers or other pioneers is extremely skewed.

    Does someone’s intelligence make their arguments more valid? No, we can judge someone’s intelligence by the validity of their arguements. May I take this opportunity to call you a jabbering, stick-throwing, pitfucker? In case its a pre-requisite to receiving a response. I was drawn to your website by a desire to check the growth of Scientology. I would have thought that anger and objectivity don’t make good bedfellows but I love this no BS approach.

    Best of luck

  117. This article smacks of theist apologetic that doesn’t want to admit what he really is.

  118. That comment is the perfect example of the sort of obnoxious cunt I’m talking about. You don’t know shit, little boy. You’re fucking pathetic.

  119. Captain X

    I’m fairly sure there’s a God, but like it or not, religion is still a source of comfort and hope for hundreds of millions (would i go too far by saying billions?) of people all over the world. well done for finally attacking the elitist retards who think that taking the piss out of what others sincerely believe somehow makes them better than anyone else. articles like this should be more common. These cunts needed to be put in thier place. i honestly thought modern crusader was just being sarcastic for the heck of it until i saw the twat’s second post.

  120. AT Ist

    To say that atheism requires faith is as dim-witted as saying that disbelief in pixies or leprechauns takes faith.

  121. I said nothing of the sort. I’m not sure if it’s mandatory to be a cunt in order to be an atheist but it certainly seems to help.

  122. Fuck Atheists

    Mr Angry is the man. That is all.

  123. Dweller

    Beliefs are exactly that beliefs. Nothing factual.Just like 1+1=2. I believe that to be true, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is true. Where did I get the information? It was passed down from previous generations. Someone told me 1+1=2 around first grade.Better example, the statement “The tree bark is brown.” Brown describes what color I “believe” the bark of the tree to be. However, the color brown existed way before it was defined. What it is; is not necessarily brown. Brown is what we use to describe what we “think” it is. There it is, we “think” it’s brown. Is the tree bark really brown? Could it be something other than brown? It could, therefore we cannot say shit about what the color IS. Instead we can say what we THINK it is. Just like you can’t say shit about whether a supreme being does or does not exist. For all we know we might have discovered it/him/her/whatever but labeled it/him/her/whatever something else. The truth, we do not know anything to be true.

    I hate when people try to jam their beliefs down my throat. You know the type. If you disagree with what they THINK, they get pissed and start cussing at you like YOUR’RE the asshole.

    Metaphysics. If only there was money to be made in it, I would have chosen it as my major rather than business admin.

  124. I believe there are some atheists who are arrogant and border on being as intolerant of theists as the believers are of atheists. They simply need to remember live and let live. If believers think religion helps them individually, then go for it. Being religious is NOT a character flaw. Being intolerant of reasonable other points of view is. Those who deserve derision and ridicule are the ones who try to push their dogma on the rest of us, be it through laws the media or popular culture in general. Arrogance sucks as does intolerance, no matter who promotes such attitudes.

  125. Ben

    I’m an atheist, an antitheist, and a rationalist, but I don’t think that these schools of thought make me inherently smarter or better than anyone at all. What puzzles me about this article, though, is that it seems like you actually do. You call religion both “laughable” and “fucking ridiculous,” and though believers of any kind obviously think they’re right, isn’t calling their beliefs laughable and ridiculous saying that not only do you disagree, but you think they’re crazy to believe such things? The distinction that I make is that while I don’t think religious people are stupid, I think that their beliefs are — and that’s why I have the opposite beliefs. After all, isn’t part of having an opinion the conclusion that your opinion is better than all others? But that doesn’t mean that we hate or look down on those with other opinions on the basis of that opinion alone; we disagree with them on the pertinent point, and no matter how important or seemingly obvious it is to us, we acknowledge that people are more than just Christians, Jews, atheists, etc.: there’s plenty of stupidity on all sides of the debate.

  126. Let’s cut straight to the quick, Produce a grand unified theory that ties Gravity, the strong and weak nuclear forces and the electromagnetic forces together and you will have very nearly won this argument. Be sure to show your empirical data, your hypothesis and the mathematics that ties it all together. Show them to be replicabal anywhere in the Cosmos and under any circumstances and you will have gone a long way toward proving your point.
    My advice to you at this point is to drown your sorrows in your favorite alcoholic beverage and go away and stop wasting the time of your betters.

    I wish you all the best. Seriously though. please go get a real education.

  127. What the fuck are you on about?

  128. john wald

    Angry Aussie, Thank you for this article. I, too, have had it with atheist God bashers. Live and let live — you believe in no God, fine. You believe in God, fine. Most atheists don’t give a crap one way or the other; but a certain percentage of them have come howling out of the wilderness and refuse to shut their pie holes. Shut up, rabid atheists. Nobody’s listening to you except other rabid atheists, so you’re preaching to the converted. I guess these people just love to hear themselves talk or blah blah blah blah or rant and rave. And as for you, Albert — Please go get an education yourself. You’re too stupid to realize that none of your blah blah blah blah makes a bit of difference to anybody who believes in God. Like I said, (duh), you’re preaching to the converted. Nobody who truly believes in God, gives a flying fart what you say. If you believe in God, nothing anybody says changes things for you. If you don’t believe in God, nothing anybody says changes things for you. Get it? If not, go get a real education. I happen to be an atheist myself, but even I have reached my limit with these crazy train folk.

  129. Alex Cox

    you people make me sick, every FUCKING ONE OF YOU! everyone of you depend on science to explain everyday logic 24/7! you people are the reason I gave up on life! NO ONE CAN GET THROUGH TO YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS! you want logic? fine, if you believe in the big bang theory then you know it was caused by a build up of energy and light which created our solar system WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DO YOU THINK CREATED ENERGY AND LIGHT? magic!?! if you believe in evolution then you know we started out as single celled organisms which evolved slowly into what we are today. 2 things disproves that, 1.what created cells? 2.why are we not still evolving!?! AND ANYONE ELSE WHO STILL DOES NOT BELIEVE. then you know that if you are an atheist then everything is here by coincidence and no supierior intellegence was involved. then I think you would enjoy a little fact about life and our anatomy, any scientist will tell you this is true and has been proven. inside every one of our cells lies a code that works alot like binary code except instead of 2 digits, theres 4 and are made of 4 chemical compounds A,T,G, and C. the code varies depending on location and what type of cell it is. the code acts as an instruction manual for that cell and commands it what to do….AND YOUR TRYING TO TELL ME THATS A COINCIDENCE!?! and don’t even get me started on how if our earth’s shape, placement and distance was adjusted just a little. how we could freeze, burn, dehydrate, etc. and what about the laws of physics!?! where the fuck did those come from!?! for the love of all that is your soul wise the fuck up! don’t even reply, im sick of your retarded atheist trash. talk to me when you have opened your eyes!!!

    • There are so many trolls on the internet it’s impossible to tell whether you think you’re being funny or if you’re actually that fucking stupid.

    • Dave

      The reason the earth is at the right distant and all that is because those are the only places that life can exist and most places in the universe are very hostile to life as we know it . Your wrong about the the big bang release of energy yes but also time space and the laws of physics them selves not light light wasn’t there till 300,000 years after the big bangThe laws of physic are that way because any tiny variation would cause the universe to fall apart they need to be stable or things wouldn’t work the way they do with out them. But not even for life stars, planets or anything. It natural to make connection to things it human nature but the fact is people don’t know every thing about the universe or even are own world. So to make a judgement on incomplete evidence is premature but I don’t blame you to think that it’s was god but there is not real answer to the question and we may never know

  130. TheSocraticAgnostic

    Alex Cox is an atheist troll who is Poeing fundmentalism. He emailed me weeks ago abou this post. Just wanted to let you know mainly because I agree with you about atheist bigots. Do you know how many atheists I know hate my guts and I mean HATE my guts because I dare to be an agnostic–instead of saying ‘yeah Im sure there is no god” etc? In other words if I dont think exactly like they do then I must be one of *shudder* THEM. True science is neither athiestic or theistic those are philosophical stances. Science is a tool and we are very new at using it. Anyway good for you for showing your independence of the ‘atheist party line’.

  131. TheSocraticAgnostic

    PS I would have posted this earlier but we were still officially friends in July and I felt an obligation not to reveal his ruse. He also thinks tamtampamela (you know the atheist girl on youtube who pretended to be a fundamentalist christian thanking god for the japan earthquake) is a hero and said more “atheists should pretend to be christian nuts to help our cause”. I know, I know he is a nut. I regret ever befriending the idiot. take care.

    • There are certain people who are complete arseholes who I think only proclaim atheism because they think it gives them license to act intellectually superior. Much like “christians” who are hateful scumbags who use their professed beliefs as a shield for being complete pricks to people.

  132. May O'Pinion

    It’s not really the religion or lack thereof that’s the trouble. It’s their basic personality of the person who decides to go off the deep end with whatever their toxic brand of belief/non-belief is. They are neither rational, creative or emotionally mature in their thinking. Everything has to be literal, and they’re very either/or dogmatic. Because they fear being “wrong” or appearing foolish, they’ll either conform to the prevailing zeitgeist, or they’ll fight to the “finish.” It’s really sad and some of them could probably stand to be on anti-depressants (if not anti-psychotic) meds, and getting into intensive psychotherapy. Generally you’ll find that most of the more vocal ‘militant’ atheist tend to have a religious past (usually but not always evangelical Protestant Christian), and they were just as in-your-face and annoying even then.

  133. Actually, believers *are* stupid when it comes to matters of religion. The reality is that God or any supernatural entity or phenomenon probably does not exist. Our knowledge of reality is based on what science discovers. And those discoveries are backed by solid evidence until new evidence alters or disproves what we know. The problem with believers is that they don’t think critically. They don’t care about science. They basically say, “I believe, and I refuse to think further about the issue.” Well no shit atheists think believers are stupid. It’s because THEY ARE STUPID WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR FAITH. A person can have an IQ of 180 but still be stupid when it comes to religion. To refuse to think about a faith claim the same way you think about any other issue in life is voluntary stupidity. Anyone who researches the findings of science, history, and literature and compares them to the extraordinary (and unoriginal) claims religious people throw out there will see instantly see just how absurd religious beliefs are. I mean, let’s be honest: Atheists are generally more concerned with science and about learning the truth about the world. Believers don’t give a flying shit about learning. All they do is use their childish beliefs as a huge pacifier to deal with life’s uncertainties and hardships. It’s time for believers to grow up and face reality for what it is, or at least what we think it is at this point in existence. So you SHUT THE FUCK UP and stop judging atheists, you big prick. Atheists generally ARE intellectually superior when you compare them to blind believers who don’t use their fucking brains in the slightest. Get a fucking clue, dude.

    • Jazzgirl

      Atheists are idiot too. Idiots and not all believers hate science. I love Science. we are in 2013 not in the 1800.

    • Farkinell

      LOL Art King. You are the proof Angry is spot on. Sweeping generalisations, idiotic conclusions. Please! a 5 year old could do better.
      Come back when you find another brain cell. In the meantime YOU shut up!

  134. Dave

    Yea I’m mean I agree with a lot of what you said but I’ve never meet many other atheist that call all religious people or some one that believes in god dumb it doesn’t even mater what you believe there a lot of arrogant people that think every one else is wrong if your religious or not I mean i don’t personally think that there is a god or higher power and it doesn’t bother me at all if someone is religious its just when people say with 100 percent certainty that there has to be a god I just think everyone should look at all angles and draw there own conclusions and not always listen to what other people say no matter how comforting it might be

  135. hfoihewhewewg

    Anybody that believes that he is smarter, or superior just because he thinks people who believe in god is acting like one. Also, inferior dumbasses like these lose a lot of trust, friends, etc. Which in fact I begin to disapprove the losers’ way of thinking. The same goes for religious people who think that they are better than people who don’t believe in god. Once again, these guys are douche bags and/or freaking idiots.

  136. Jeff Loehr

    Hey man you don’t have to let the douchebags of the world get you down. Religion is a waste of time and arguing the fact is too. Move on with your life and stop being so angry buddy.

    • anonymous

      Go fuck yourself, you liar. If you don’t like this website, then get the hell of of it.

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